Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/06/1997 01:43 PM House FIN
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 6, 1997
1:30 P.M.
TAPE HFC 97-48, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 97-48, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 97-49, Side 1, #000 - #610.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Therriault called the House Finance Committee
meeting to order at 1:43 p.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Hanley Representative Kelly
Co-Chair Therriault Representative Kohring
Representative Davies Representative Martin
Representative Davis Representative Moses
Representative Grussendorf Representative Mulder
Representative Foster was absent from the meeting.
ALSO PRESENT
Mark Millard, Southeast Alaska Regional Health Consortium;
Margaret Grasse, Release of Parents; Clint Hess, Anchorage
Youth Court Judge; Matt Neil, Anchorage Youth Court
Sentencing Coordinator; Joan Foote, Fairbanks; Al Near,
Fairbanks; Cam Calson, Fairbanks; Scott Calder, Fairbanks;
Robin Lown, Vice President, Alaska Peace Officers'
Association; Michael J. Kirk, Juneau; Angela Salerno,
National Association of Social Workers.
SUMMARY
HCR 4 Relating to records generated and maintained by the
Department of Health and Social Services.
HCR 4 was HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
HB 6 "An Act amending laws relating to the
disclosure of information relating to certain
minors."
HB 6 was HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
1
HOUSE BILL NO. 6
"An Act amending laws relating to the disclosure of
information relating to certain minors."
Representative Kelly, sponsor of HB 6, discussed the
legislation. He maintained that there exists a veil of
secrecy surrounding the world of juvenile crime. He
observed that the identities of youth criminals are kept
secret in an attempt to protect the futures of young
offenders. He asserted that this has had the effect of
"enabling these youth in their life of crime, and allowing
them to walk the streets unknown to us." He stressed that
HB 6 is not about punishment. It is about protection of the
public and the public's right. He emphasized that secrecy
prevents the community from coming to the aid of youth
offenders. He observed that a recent Fairbanks' survey
listed juvenile crime as the number one concern. He stated
that the Alaska Peace Officers Association and the Alaska
Municipal League support the bill. He maintained that
secrecy protects a flawed system.
Representative Kelly discussed the juvenile intake system.
He noted children are referred to the Department of Health &
Social Services for a preliminary investigation after
arrest. At that point, the Department can pursue an
informal adjustment, where the minor admits guilt, consents
to the outcome and an informal adjustment or the Department
of Health & Social Services can petition the court for
formal proceedings.
Representative Kelly observed that HB 6 would require that
names of certain minors be released at adjustment and
petition. The names of minors that have committed crimes
against persons, use of a deadly weapon, burglary, arson,
prostitution of the 1st degree (forcing someone into
prostitution), distribution of child pornography, or selling
drugs will be released. Minors that are in disregard of
authority and who refuse to participate in rehabilitation
programs or community service could also have their names
released. He explained that names are released at petition
and adjustment to equalize the procedure. He observed
concern that minors would seek adjudication if names were
not released at petition.
Co-Chair Therriault observed that many cases do not result
in a formal finding of guilt. He emphasized that it would
be difficult to only release names upon a finding of guilt.
He asked for further explanation of the preliminary
investigation leading to petition. Representative Kelly
stated that probable cause would exist.
2
In response to comments by Representative Grussendorf,
Representative Kelly emphasized that minors committing "the
more bold crimes" will have their names released. He stated
that the names of minors who commit dangerous crimes will be
released at adjustment. He added that children who are 16
years or older and have a previous conviction will also have
their names released.
Representative Kelly clarified that subsection (g) on page
3, refers to felony delivery of a controlled substance. He
explained that the legislation was changed to clarify that
the possession of a living marijuana plant or passing a
joint would not trigger the provisions. Possession of a
controlled substance must be accompanied by an intent to
deliver.
Co-Chair Hanley referred to subsection (c), page 3, and line
22. Representative Kelly clarified that the names of minors
who refuse to participate in a court ordered or probation
officer required placement plan will be released, for any
offense. He stated that the intent is to cover youth
offenders who are committing misdemeanors and have no
respect to authority. Running away is not considered an
offense. He observed that smoking, traffic offenses and
fish and game offenses are considered adult crime.
Co-Chair Therriault summarized that the intent is to retain
the secrecy system for lesser offenses, but allow additional
leverage for cases where the minor is not amenable to making
restitution or rehabilitation.
Co-Chair Hanley asked how names will be released. He
clarified that he is not concerned with the release of
juvenile names as provided for in HB 6. He stated that his
concern is regarding the costs versus the benefits.
Representative Kelly noted that electronic technology can
be utilized. He stressed that the media will report the
name that can be disclosed. He stressed communication
between teachers and the Department will be increased. The
police will also have access.
Representative Kelly referred to a Fairbanks case where a
juvenile shot a trooper. He noted that newspapers will
report the more serious cases. Discussion ensued regarding
police access. Representative Kelly explained that police
do not know what happens to children after they are
arrested. The arrest record is not confidential within the
Police Department. He stressed that the community will be
protected by knowledge of youth offenses. He noted that in
the Fairbanks case, neighbors did not know that the juvenile
had been committing burglaries in the neighborhood.
3
Representative Davies agreed that improved communication
between the Department of Health & Social Services and the
police is needed. He stated that there are circumstances,
especially in the case of a first time offense, that
children should not be branded as criminals. He observed
that the concern is where to draw the line. He emphasized
the need to send an immediate message that an act is wrong
and that there is a consequence. He questioned the need to
release names in the case of a first time offense, where the
minor is willing to admit guilt and be subjected to
rehabilitation and restitution. He stated that if a minor
resists admitting guilt or they have been previously through
the system their names should be publicized.
Co-Chair Therriault referred to the Fairbanks case. He
observed that the persons victimized did not know that the
juvenile offender lived in the area. He asked if discussion
had occurred regarding first versus second offenses.
Representative Kelly replied that there are "plenty of
second chances built into this bill." He noted that some
offenses were removed where it was decided that minors
should not be "branded." Misdemeanor assault was not
included for disclosure. He noted that drug related offenses
must be accompanied with the intent to distribute to trigger
disclosure. He stated that most crimes will be second time
offenses. He maintained that more dangerous crimes should
not be kept from the community. He stressed that crimes
against a person, forcing prostitution, burglary and arson
are serious crimes. He observed that the communities need
to know about minors who have "blown off the system."
Discussion ensued regarding burglary. Co-Chair Hanley read
the definition of "burglary" under AS 11.46.300 - 310.
Burglary in the second degree is committed when a person
enters or remains unlawfully in a building with the intent
to commit a crime in the building.
Representative Kelly noted that vandalism would not trigger
disclosure. He observed that criminal mischief in the
first-degree covers damages from $500 hundred to $100
thousand dollars. He noted that under this definition a
broken window could result in a child's name being
published.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that the legislation would put at risk
$7 million dollars of federal funding, unless the Department
of Health & Social Services is restructured. He observed
that even if the Department is split the State will loose
$700 thousand dollars in federal funds, as a result of the
legislation.
4
Co-Chair Therriault explained that children in need of aid
will be separated from delinquent minors.
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4
Relating to records generated and maintained by the
Department of Health and Social Services.
Representative Kelly explained that HCR 4 will allow the
Department of Health & Social Services to restructure in
order to protect federal funding. Lines of authority and
finance will separate children in need of aid and delinquent
minors. He clarified that open disclosure cannot take place
in the Department because abused and neglected children are
involved. The federal government requires a structural
separation.
HOUSE BILL NO. 6
"An Act amending laws relating to the disclosure of
information relating to certain minors."
MARGARET GRASSE, SOCIAL WORK STUDENT testified via the
teleconference network. She questioned if parent's names
would be released. She expressed concern with restructuring
costs. She spoke in support of the Anchorage Youth Court.
She asked how the Youth Court would be affected.
Representative Kelly acknowledged that parents' names will
be released. Names of foster care providers will not be
released, except in the case of long term foster care
parents. He maintained that the Youth Court will not be
affected. He emphasized that the State will not have an
increased infrastructure cost. The State will loose federal
funding.
CLINT HESS, CHIEF JUDGE, ANCHORAGE YOUTH COURT testified via
the teleconference network. He expressed concerns with the
legislation. He maintained that there will be no incentive
for youths to choose the Youth Court. He observed that one
incentive to choose the Youth Court is that names are kept
confidential.
(Tape Change, HFC 97-48, Side 2)
Mr. Hess spoke in support of the Anchorage Youth Court. He
observed that the Anchorage Youth Court has a lower
recidivism rate than the regular juvenile process. He noted
that the Youth Court handles minors that are tired of
listening to adults. He pointed out that, at the Youth
Court, their peers tell minors they are wrong. He asserted
5
that juveniles can "cheat the (agency) process." He
expressed concern that parents will pressure children to use
the regular juvenile process. He observed that minors
perform community services as part of their sentence. He
asserted that youth courts will be downsized as a result of
the legislation. He emphasized that members of the Youth
Court participate in the judicial process.
In response to a question by Co-Chair Therriault, Mr. Hess
observed that the Youth Court would not receive arson cases.
The Youth Court would receive some of the burglary cases.
Co-Chair Therriault suggested that the there will be no
shortage of cases for the Youth Court. He pointed out that
under current law, juvenile cases are kept confidential
unless they are tried as adults. He did not think the
legislation would provide a disincentive.
In response to a question by Co-Chair Therriault, Mr. Hess
noted that juveniles that go through the Youth Court and
complete their sentences can truthfully state that they have
never been convicted of a crime. He reiterated concerns
that disclosure would reduce incentive to go to the Youth
Court. He reiterated that it is "far easier to cheat to
regular process than it is to cheat the Anchorage Youth
Court." He stressed that sentences by the Youth Court are
harder.
Representative Kelly pointed out that the benefit of
confidentiality is not bestowed by the Youth Court. The
Youth Court carries out the rules of the Department. He
added that the Youth Court does not handle the level of
crimes identified by the legislation. He pointed out that
the Youth Court could use the threat of disclosure as an
additional lever in the case of second time possession of
controlled substances on school grounds. He maintained that
the Youth Court will not be affected. He pointed out that
community service is an adjustment that the Department of
Health & Social Services allows the Youth Court to use.
Co-Chair Therriault observed that Mr. Hess's remarks
indicate that restitution ordered by the agency is not being
followed up.
Mr. Hess stressed that the time between the crime was
committed and the sentence is handed out and completed is
much shorter in the youth court system. He emphasized the
benefit of a short turn-around-time.
Co-Chair Therriault questioned the affect of community
condemnation to juveniles. Mr. Hess stated that minors are
more affected by peer condemnation than community
condemnation.
6
MAT NEIL, SENTENCING COORDINATOR, ANCHORAGE YOUTH COURT
testified via the teleconference network. He applauded the
effort to address juvenile crime. He expressed concern with
disclosure in informal adjustment cases. He stressed the
need to separate anti-social behavior from "dumb choices."
He stated that the formal system is over-loaded. He
observed that the Youth Court has the time and resources to
verify restitution and monitor payments to victims. He
asserted that the legislation will cause victims to wait
longer, result in less restitution, and delay consequences.
He maintained that some good kids could be labeled without
cause. He stated that adjustment cases should be left off
the public list. He noted that the 89 percent of Anchorage
Youth Court cases do not reoffended.
Co-Chair Hanley clarified that youth courts can only deal
with violations of state law that are misdemeanors or
violations that constitute a violation of municipal
ordinance that would be considered a misdemeanor. He
concluded that the Youth Court would not handle the types of
cases that are addressed in the legislation. He spoke in
support of the Anchorage Youth Court. He emphasized that
the legislation would provide a disincentive to the Youth
Court. In response to a question by Co-Chair Therriault,
Mr. Neil stressed that kids are impulsive. He did not think
that a child entering a person's house would necessarily
know that they are committing a felony.
JOAN FOOTE, ANCHORAGE testified via the teleconference
network in support of HB 6. She noted that her area was
terrorized by juvenile delinquents during the past summer.
She referred to amendments that Representative Kelly had
prepared (copy on file). She spoke in support of deleting
"failed, without good cause," and inserting "knowingly
failed." She maintained that the legislation will help
juvenile offenders to realize the seriousness of their
actions. She expressed support for the Fairbanks Youth
Court. She maintained that the legislation will help
juvenile offenders to realize the seriousness of their
actions.
AL NEAR, ANCHORAGE testified via the teleconference network.
He spoke in support of deleting "failed, without good
cause," and inserting "knowingly failed." He agreed that
the Fairbanks Youth Court is a good addition to the juvenile
system. He maintained that many of the offenders diverted
to the Youth Court would have gone straight anyway. He
stressed that the community has a right to know about
juvenile offenders. He asserted that vandalism should be
included in the legislation. He point out that a threshold
7
level could be contained. He recounted his experience with
a juvenile offender in Fairbanks.
Representative Kelly agreed that criminal mischief in the
second degree needs to be addressed. He stressed that it
needs to be addressed in separate legislation.
CAM CARLSON, ANCHORAGE testified via the teleconference
network in support of HB 6. She disagreed that children
would be "branded for life" by the bill. She observed that
confidentiality statutes have not always been in place. She
maintained that public awareness and humiliation is a strong
deterrent. She asserted that the public has the right to
know. She alleged that children know that they can do
anything they want until the are 18 years of age. She
maintained that younger children are used as runners by
older, harden criminals. She stressed that it is too late
to inform the public after 3 or 4 offenses have been
committed.
SCOTT CALDER, ANCHORAGE testified via the teleconference
network. He stated that the discussion is good, but
expressed reservations about portions of the bill. He
emphasized that there need to be timely, consistent and
logical consequences. He stressed that parents are a
tremendous resource that need to be protected and enhanced.
He maintained that the most important reason to release the
names of children that have come into contact with Division
of Family and Youth Services is to protect the child. He
asserted that contact with the Division is dangerous. He
implied that children are not taught they have
responsibilities. He stated that children who have been
sexually abused are more likely to start fires. He
maintained that it cannot be assumed that "just because
there is combustible materials involved, that we are dealing
with a harden criminal that cannot be rehabilitated, even at
a young age."
Mr. Calder stated that the right of the public to obtain
information based on probable cause needs to be looked at.
He stated that the need-to-know status of the person
receiving the information should be identified. He referred
to the Fairbanks Youth Court. He asserted that the system
excludes unwanted input in regards to problems in the larger
system. He did not think that secrecy as a key to
rehabilitation makes sense. He stressed that kids that do
not care what adults say are the problem that needs to be
addressed.
(Tape Change, HFC 97-49, Side 1)
He maintained that the Division of Family and Youth Services
8
is at fault. He asserted that parents must be empowered.
He stressed that if children do not listen to their parents
they are not going to listen to anyone else.
MARK MILLARD, DIRECTOR, BEHAVIOR HEALTH SERVICES, SOUTHEAST
ALASKA REGIONAL HEALTH CONSORTIUM expressed concern that HB
6 goes too far. He questioned how many youths committing
dangerous felonies reoffend. He noted that public
identification of youthful offenders will increase community
visibility and increase social sanctions. He stated that
positive opportunities of these youth could be affected,
making it more difficult for youth to engage in positive
activities. He maintained that public disclosure will
result in an increase in juvenile delinquency. He observed
that the State will loose federal funds as a result of the
legislation.
Representative Davies asked if there is a screening tool
that can be used to determine which youth are likely to
reoffend. Mr. Millard stated that the whole juvenile
probation process attempts to make this determination.
MICHAEL KIRK, JUNEAU urged the Legislature to accompany the
legislation with a youth corps to prevent juvenile crime.
He stressed that when juveniles are busy, they do not create
mischief. He emphasized that juveniles are not being
challenged by society. He referred to past youth programs
that provided children with challenges and kept them active.
He noted that many of today's children are bored. He added
that a "hard nosed" legal system needs to be accompanied by
challenges and "rights of passages." He observed that
schools are afraid of expelling children for fear of loosing
funding. He asserted that restitution is no substitute for
prevention. He maintained that a 12-year-old child knows
the difference from right and wrong. He referred to a Yale
study by Gazelle. He stated that the study showed that
young children know different degrees of right and wrong.
He maintained that parents should have their names published
if there is negligence or if they do not attempt to regulate
the child's activities or get help from the authorities.
Mr. Kirk stressed that peer pressure is not an excuse.
ROBIN LOWN, VICE PRESIDENT, ALASKA PEACE OFFICERS'
ASSOCIATION (APOA) testified in support of the legislation.
He noted that the Association encompasses all aspects of law
enforcement. He stated that APOA supports HB 6. He stated
that it is necessary and advisable to disclose the names of
violent juvenile offenders and offenders who do not comply
with their sentences. He observed that adult criminal
records are not readily available. Adult records are
obtained at the court where the person was convicted. Adult
records are available to law enforcement officers. All
9
adult convictions go into the state system. He noted that
police do not have access to juvenile records. In response
to a earlier comments regarding burglary, Mr. Lown pointed
out that less serious crimes can be plea or charge bargained
down to something less than a burglary. He stated that
there is no check and balance on the Division of Family and
Youth Services in regards to what happens to offenders. He
inferred that public input is restricted by the secrecy of
the proceedings. He questioned if the current juvenile
system works well. He asked if juvenile crime is being
reduced. He stated that DFYS is not succeeding.
ANGELA SALERNO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
SOCIAL WORKERS ALASKA CHAPTER observed that the juvenile
population in the State of Alaska has risen 40 percent
between 1980 and 1990. She stressed that there is more
juvenile crime because there are more juveniles. She
maintained that HB 6 radically changes the juvenile code.
She stated that the Juvenile Court is the result of reforms
and not an experiment. She stated that HB 6 will be a
dramatic departure from what has been a reform. The
Juvenile Court was intended to resemble a civil not a
criminal court. The juvenile system places an emphasis on
the youthful offender's eventual reintegration and return to
society.
Ms. Salerno stressed that the cost of the measure is high.
She questioned what the State of Alaska will get for $1
million dollars. She maintained that research done at the
University of Florida has shown that popular "get tough"
measures fail in dealing with juvenile crime. She referred
to a study that appeared in the April 1996 issue of the
Journal of Crime and Delinquency. The study found that
youths tried as adults commit new crimes at a higher rate
than their counterparts who stay in juvenile courts. This
finding is significant to the debate on HB 6 because
releasing the names of juvenile offenders treats them as de
facto adults. She maintained that those youths are
reoffending more quickly and more violently.
She stated that there is a misperception that nothing
happens to juveniles who commit crimes. The confidentiality
of juvenile cases, combined with the emphasis on
rehabilitation, may lead to the impression that there are no
sanctions, punishment or measures to hold the juvenile
responsible are now in place. People who deal with juvenile
offenders, the courts and probation officers, have a number
of choices or dispositions; waiver to adult courts for the
most serious offenses, adjudication and probation; or in
more severe cases, institutionalization in long-term
detention and treatment facilities, informal adjustments,
and probations. She maintained that minor offenses are
10
often not treated because of a lack of funding. She
observed that the juvenile system works much like the adult
system.
Ms. Salerno maintained that releasing the names of juvenile
offenders and their parents will not deter the youth from
future crime. Youths engaged in ongoing criminal activity
may see disclosure as a "badge of honor." More
impressionable youth may internalize the label, compromising
efforts at rehabilitation. She expressed concern that
children will act out their labels. She stated that
labeling will impact their future employability as well as
social standing in the community.
Ms. Salerno expressed concern with disclosure at case
adjustment. She emphasized that adjustment is where
juveniles get help from diversion programs. She stressed
that the role of treatment and diversion may be negated by
disclosure.
Ms. Salerno questioned how the community will help if there
is disclosure. She stated that there is no link or
mechanism for kids, who have their names released, to be
helped by the community. She stressed that there needs to
be responsible adults charged with helping youths. She
maintained that the community will shun the offender. She
emphasized that this will stress troubled families.
Ms. Salerno observed that juvenile crime is closely
associated with societal problems beyond the youth's
control. She noted that juvenile crime is closely related
to a number of societal problems that are beyond the
juvenile's control. She identified some of the problems:"
* The sheer number of young people in Alaska;
* Poverty as a link to juvenile crime;
* Child abuse and its link to juvenile crime; and
* Failure in school and its link with juvenile
crime. Nearly 25% of Alaska's ninth graders do
not graduate from high school.
Ms. Salerno stated that NASW supports a balanced and
restorative approach to juvenile justice. Restorative
justice tries to "put it back together, rather than just
punishing." She urged the consideration of a variety of on
going prevention and diversion programs. She stated that
breaching the confidentiality of minors will not get us
where we want to go.
11
Co-Chair Hanley disagreed that juvenile crime is beyond the
youth's control or that labeling creates the problem. He
acknowledged that there are contributing factors, but
emphasized the need for accountability. He stressed that if
someone commits a felony, regardless of if they are a
juvenile, it is a problem. He did not think that the stigma
to the individual is as great as some assert. He
acknowledged that there will be some prejudice against
offenders. He noted that his biggest concern is what the
State receives for the money that would be spent. He did
not have a problem with disclosure.
Co-Chair Therriault noted that disclosure is mandatory in
many states. He questioned if there is a problem in other
states from disclosure. Ms. Salerno observed that
disclosure has only been popular for about 5 years.
Ms. Salerno stressed that NASW is supportive of
consequences. She noted that NASW supports early, sure and
swift consequences. She expressed concern that this is not
happening due to financial constraints. She observed that
social workers work in crisis. She acknowledged that there
are some kids that are "too far gone." She suggested that a
wide net is being cast, that is catching kids that could be
rehabilitated.
Representative Kelly agreed that some problems have occurred
from the way the system is funded. He stated that juvenile
crime and the DFYS system as it relates to juvenile crime
will have to be addressed.
HB 6 and HCR 4 were HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 3:56 p.m.
12
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|